User talk:Mp:Thesis:Presentation nov 04

Hi Martin,

I just changed a few things like spelling and rephrasing in the introduction. The first sentence is still very confusing, for instance are we talking about the movements or the tools when we give the examples?

I'm not sure if the link to the UN article 19 is sufficient authority nowadays in academic terms?

I wouldn't like to put actual comments (like my opinions apart from my opinions about what I thought you were trying to say) on the page itself, although the wiki tells you to.

But here maybe I could start discussion if anyone else attends the site (still mainly just on the intro):

1. While accepting that open source software is largely dependent on the internet, and while accepting that a great many great internet applications are open source, I'm not sure it is true that the internet is built mainly on "free software". The first point here is that I think you mean open source and gnu (or similar) licensed software when you say free and so perhaps that distinction could be made clearer (I mean I know it's only an introduction, maybe you could say open source and then explain what it means later). Indeed, Internet Explorer, which is the most widely used browser, is technically free, and so you could say that the "web", if not the internet, is built on free software, i.e. Internet Explorer.

The second point is that the internet itself, is built in the first instance on the physical links (wireless, cable, fibre whaterver) and computers, then in the second instance on networking protocols historically derived from the us military - which nevertheless have become somewhat open standards nowadays, and are developed using a process that is partially open (not directly linked to the gnu movement, see www.ietf.org - not sure who it is funded by). Maybe this is getting too technical for what you want to mean by internet but I think it is important before putting forward any utopian vision to remember where it really came from. Also, leading to my point below, the underlying physical nature of the internet, and its requirements, can hardly be forgotten, even though sometimes in the developed world it seems that there is infintite bandwidth and infinite processing power (and these things - essentially free distribution and free tools of creation - are needed for copyleft to work) - going down to the bottom of the article, the real environmental consequences are the power and resources that the internet consumes, not the software environment in which we operate.

2. The question of right to freedom of expression in this context is perhaps viable in a national setting in developed countries. It would surely require some kind of right to a computer and an internet connection first, whihc in turn would require electricity, a decent standard of living etc. In the context of the UN at the moment it is only of very theoretical importance (atlhough perhaps should be considered), considering the UN is struggling to feed half the world.

3. Even amongst the relatively rich (those with computers and internet connections), so far I would suggest that open source software is "for techies by techies". And for those who have to work with computers (but who are not computer experts), Microsoft is still a nicer environment to work under (so that for some rights you may even prefer Microsoft at the moment). Obviously that doesn't in itself quash the ultimate "right to free software" and you could interpret the right such that governments had to put money into developing open source to be easy to use/ergonomic, and obviously it is necessary in the first instance to protect against Microsoft et al blocking open source developments before they can compete, as you describe later in the rant. (When we specify a right to open source software, rather than just free software, then the whole point of only techies benefitting becomes even clearer, becuase a large part of the freedom with a capital F of open source is that you can look at and modify the programs you are running - yes, great in theory, but who has the technical expertise to do this - even if you have the time?)

Dave